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Post by GM / Malinous on Jan 28, 2012 12:15:16 GMT -5
[TBDone]
[glow=red,2,300]Daiche[/glow]
Leadership & Kin[/u]
Counselor Redstone (Obsidiman, Neutral)
A Rust-colored Obsidiman.
His Brother is Captain Redstone, of the Black Company
He is often referred to as "Red" by those prone to being overly casual. Fortunately for everone, he actually has a well developed sense of humor.
Counselor Hightower (Human, Hostile)
* A bit of a Sycophant. Has thrown his loyalty in with M. Vandis Verdant after squandering too much of his own family's fortune.
Reginald Hightower (Human Swordmaster, Enemy)
Counselor Hightower's son.
Takes after his father. Serves as Elias Verdant's right-hand flunky.
Defeated by Mawaris in a humiliating fight in the Tournament.
Fights with sword & shield
Vandis Verdant (Elf, Hostile)
Extremely wealthy, foremost of the elves . . . except . . . your father managed to secure more influence and support. Has been maneuvering to take your father's place on the council for centuries.
Vandis Verdant leads the Blood Guard. An Elite unit specializing in hunting horrors. KNown for their bright Red uniforms. MOst people steer well clear of them. They border on witch-hunters. But they have unquestionably saved many lives.
Elias Verdant (Elven Beastmaster, Hostile)
Vandis Verdant's Son
* Jealous, Power Hungry, like father
Counselor Stormpeak (Troll, Nuetral)
-- Heavily Honor-bound and serious. For unknown reasons, he is bald.
Sons of Stormpeak:
Kam: (Troll Sky Raider, Unfriendly)
(Eldest Brother).
Lightbrown Hair/beard. Has a triangular scar on his left cheek acquired from battling and defeating one of the horrors that had snuck into the Kaer and was lying low.
Being Groomed to lead. Elias Verdant has assigned himself to Kam's side. Kam is the nominal leader of the trio (with Reginald), but Elias saved Kam's life when a horror was discovered in the Kaer, so Kam feels he has an honor debt to Elias.
Very serious. Associates with Hightower and Verdant, because he feels he ought to associate with other potential future leaders, and they were quick to play on his sense of dignity and honor.
Mok Stormpeak (Troll Illusionist, Friendly)
(Younger twin Son): Illusionist, a good, friendly fellow, Bright yellow hair/beard
Mak Stormpeak (Troll Air Sailor, Friendly
(Younger twin Son):
Same temparament as Mok, Bright red hair/beard.
A rebel, he chose to study the discipline of the Air Sailor. It took his father a year to speak with him again. This is his chance to prove he is no lesser student of battle for his choice. Always noticeable for his bright red hair and energetic behavior. Although he has been known to quarrel just for the fun of it!
Counselor Mor'ven (T'Skrang, Neutral[/b])
Everyone suspects that he's in with the thieves.
Reputedly has under the table contacts with C. Verdant.
Friendly fellow.
Children of Mor'Ven:
Mi'Ven Mor'Ven (T'Skrang Swordmaster, Friendly)
* Daughter
Friendly, but prone to get into trouble. A bit hot-headed.
An'ven Mor'Ven (T'Skraing Beastmaster, Neutral)
Associates with Elias Verdant
Kor'ven Mor'Ven (T'Skrang Nethermancer, Neutral)
Associates with Elias Verdant
B'Laay "Billy" Mor'Ven (T'Skrang, Friendly+)
Well liked, tends to get in a lot of harmless trouble. A prankster.
Counselor Still Leaf (Windling, Neutral)
*Often seen with C. Mor'ven. C. Mor'ven always tries to make him smile. No luck yet.
*Unusually serious and stiff for a windling. Wears a formal suit.
*Never smiles.
*Rumour is he only got the job because he's the only windling that wanted it.
*ancestors were theran slaves
* had tragic encounter with horrors years ago
*Hates Thera.
Counselor Greywolf (Ork, Neutral)
*Hates Thera.
*Hates *sneaky* thieves who steal from people.
*Does not respect C. Verdant or C. Hightower
*Respects Stormpeak for his Strength
Counselor Goldheart (Dwarf, Neutral)
- Large, full beard, striking for looking exactly like gold
- nominal ruler
- Either generous or greedy. Not sure.
- Taxes, but spends it on public works
- Respects what your father contributed, but sees the city as HIS, so there is a conflict there.
- Rewards loyalty to the City
- He's generous to the city, but also sees it as HIS.
- Clan Rule of the Dwarves
- privately: Who are you loyal to? Your father? or Daiche?
Some Political Details & Father:
Verdant Sr.'s most pressing attack on yoru Father is that he allowed a number of refugees to enter, long after most Kaers had already sealed up. As a result of this, a number of horrors were able to infiltrate the Kaer.
Of course, while he would never admit it publically, privately your father is satisfied that the ongoing danger and threats has led to a population that is not uncomfortable walking around armed and wearing light armor.
"I have done all that I could for them, to keep their teeth sharp.
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Post by ehren on Jan 28, 2012 13:12:07 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Daiche Other[/u][/glow]
Captain Rockshield (Dwarf, Neutral+)
Head of the guard. Greybeard. Missing an ear from when a horror-crazed madman bit it off
Lt. Goldheart (Dwarven Warrior, Friendly)
(Counselor Goldheart's son), Young, Golden Beard like father.
Well Liked.
Sgt. Stoutarm (Dwarf, Friendly-)
Biggest Dwarf you've ever seen. Bald with a thick black beard. Built like a slab of obsidian rock.
Rumour is that he's just a short troll. He doesn't mind, thinks trolls
are an honorable lot.
Uld
Friendly+ Dwarf
Brother of Lud.
Sole Proprietor and primary barkeep at the Fishbarrel Inn, which is neither a fish, nor a barrel, nor an Inn. But they serve drinks.
Lud himself is a tough lookin' dwarf with scraggly red hair and a matching beard.
Appears to have contacts in the Daiche underworld.
Lud
Friendly+ Dwarf
Brother to Uld.
Tends to get in over his head if he ever ventures beyond petty crime. His left eye has been replaced with an astral eye blood charm.
He otherwise resembles his brother, Scraggly red hair/beard and all!
Skull and Bones
Blood-Bonded Orc-Mercenaries.
Neutral leaning Friendly
One bears the tatoo of a skull on her cheek, the other bears the tattoo of crossed bones on his cheeks
Aelthor
Elven
Involved in the first attack against the characters with Lud and Bor (deceased).
Distant relation to the Verdants.
Addicted to confidence booster potions.
Bor
Deceased Troll, horror-marked.
Killed by people Uld knows.
Murdered Maester Flan.
Maester Flan
Deceased Librarian.
Had a Spell Matrix Amulet.
Stolen by Bor, appropriated by Cinder, now Mes Has it.
Heir is his Niece. __________
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Post by GM / Malinous on Jan 29, 2012 12:51:37 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]The Black Company[/glow]
Captain-General Ulek Ironjaw (Ork Cavalryman, Neutral+)
Stoic, Iron-willed Ork. Plays things close to the vest.
Well respected. Although some grumble at the amount of space and food he's gotten apportioned by the counsel. A lot of people wonder how many people you could feed with and instead of the mounts, which are useless in the Kaer.
Captain Scarr (Dwarven Warrior, Nuetral+)
Grizzled Dwarf Veteran.
Although some suggest is temperament is more appropriate to a Sergeant :-).
Captain Redstone (Obsidiman Elementalist, Neutral+)
Red-tinted Obsidiman
Related to Counselor Redstone, consider themselves "brothers", although obviously that term isn't well-defined or clearly understood by non-obsidiman :-p.
Orek Vael (Ork Cavalryman, Friendly+)
Co-Champion of the Black Company Tournament. Dragon Kin. Parents were killed in horror attack.
Everyone has heard of him. Made an Orphan by horrors. Determined to become a great warrior. Raised by the Black Company after his parents were slain. He is perhaps a little too quiet and a little too humble, if he ever hopes to lead. But everyone says his mind is sharp and his instincts are good, and he is well liked, and favored to win. For the last 10 years, he has trained hard every day to earn a place in the Company that gave him a home.
Nonethless, the players know he was involved with the local orphans and urchins, and knows Skull & Bones.
The players also know that he is Dragon-kin.
Luuk [/u]: Ork Cavalryman, Neutral+
Young and Ambitious. He plans to enter the Black Company, and go far!
Nunc[/u]: Neutral leaning friendly
A Young, Hotheaded troll skyraider. Out for Honor and Glory.
Enodd (known to his friends as 'Odd).[/u]: Neutral leaning friendly
A Windling Archer. Light hearted and friendly. Everyone laughed when they saw him go into the testing tent. . . . now people simply look . . . bewildered! There will be even more drunk windlings tonight than usual! In fact, you're pretty sure the party has already started on top of a nearby tent!
Carl. [/u]: Neutral leaning friendly
A Young Dwarven Soldier (non-adept). He is determined to make a name for himself and he hopes, some day, to see the world. He signed on for 2 years with the guard, and his time is up. He wants to see the world, and he knows he won't do that working for the city.
K'Than. [/u]: Neutral leaning Friendly
An Earnest T'Skrang Swordmaster-student, from a family of low social standing. Determined to join the Black Company and prove himself.
Arlon [/u]: Neutral leaning Friendly
A human swordsman (non-adept). Who hopes joining the company will bring him enough money to support his wife and young child.
[glow=red,2,300]Other[/glow]
Thomril Bladesinger, Hunter of Horrors.
Elf
As you wait in the darkness, you first see a tall thin man (possibly an elf) stumble backwards into view. The man is wearing red clothing and a fashionable hat, in a mixture of bright reds and deep crimpsons. Strapped to his back is a huge two handed sword. His right arm hangs limply at his side, still clutching a scimitar that is glowing a pearly white, while the tip of the scimitar drags uselessly along the ground.
IN is left hand hand is a glowing red scimitar . . .
Decided his Lucky Hat wasn't as lucky as he'd thought, so gave it to Mawaris as a reward for us saving him. He then walked through a wall.
William Panache
Elf
Long-dead playwright-illusionist.
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Post by GM / Malinous on Jan 29, 2012 12:55:40 GMT -5
Missing
S'M dwarf (dead aristocrat who's place pc's plundered)
The Dagger
Cinder
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Post by Mawaris on Jan 29, 2012 15:10:09 GMT -5
Should add Skull and Bones too, since they've just been mentioned in that other thread.
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Post by GM / Malinous on Jan 29, 2012 16:28:32 GMT -5
They're actually on there (skull and bones) if you scroll up to Daiche--Other. You can see why it would benefit from being split into four threads, hard to quickly browse dozens of names w/ descriptions. Maybe make an Index-list too. Debating just names or
Name, Loyalty Race
Or something along those lines :-).
Details I should add in: (ran into it browsing old threads):
Dwarf with Scraggly red hair and Scraggly red beard, and a squint. One eye apears to be made of amber. He carries a Dwarven Shortsword and a dagger is sheathed at his belt. Rust spots are visible on the sword. He certainly reminds you of the Bartender. (Lud)
Troll: Unruly brown hair, unkept beard. He has an empty gaze, like he's not really paying attention to what he's doing. Aren't drugs fun? (Bor)
Elf: Light brown eyes, loose-hanging long-red hair. And a smirk.
He carries a light-quartz short sword in one hand, and a dagger in the other. His cloak appears well made and pristine, his clothes are well-made, and his swagger is pronounced!
(Aelthor)
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 18, 2012 1:46:25 GMT -5
Need to add the people we rescued too!
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 18, 2012 1:49:58 GMT -5
"Organizational Assetts"
I.e., things we've built up - networks and such
Mostly want some place to track things, so that if you do something really substantial like "spend 4 weeks of your time training them with weapons" it gets recorded. Or "Spent 500 silver giving them forged weapons."
Loyalty: 1-6 SR Scale
Powers: I'm leaning towards a 1-15 scale to correspond to circles. (Roughly). So like Power 5 might be "as good as a circle 5 adventuring party" kind of thing? Not sure :-).
[glow=red,2,300]The Orphans[/glow]
Loyalty: 4 (1-6 Scale)
Information Gathering: 2
(Limited to Street level information)
Combat: 2
(a few with rank 1 skills, but mostly concentrated in Skull & Bones)
Contributions:
- Miscellaneous Silver
- Miscellaneous training
- An estate owned by [______], a paranoid formerly very wealthy old man who was much abused by horrors before being rescued. Formerly owned by another paranoid wealthy man with no heirs, who was wiped out by Mal, Maw and a friendly windling.
[glow=red,2,300]Uld & Lud's Spy Network [/glow]
Loyalty: 4
Information Gathering: 3
(good at criminal underworld musings, hear things, but no active /standing network of informants)
Combat 2:
Contributions:
- Miscellaneous Silver
- An old-hand, self-made dwarf with a mischeivous streak, former horror prisoner
[glow=red,2,300]Black Company, Orek Vael's squad[/glow]
Loyalty: 4
Combat: 3
Contributions:
Orek Vael got a shield.
Silvered Shield given to a young recruit
Young Recruit's enthusiastic sister got purifier, but you don't know that ;-).
[glow=red,2,300]Young Daiche Adventurer Contacts[/glow]
- Mok, Mak, Mi'Ven, Lt. Goldheart & B'Laay.
Loyalty: 4
Combat: 3
Contributions:
- Adventuring Experience! If they survive . . .
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 29, 2012 19:16:14 GMT -5
I don't recall what we did with the alchemists shop other than actually buying the shop - in terms of hiring folks to run/manage it. And/or the buying of real estate.
Anyone know or, better, able to link the thread?
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Post by ehren on May 30, 2012 0:12:26 GMT -5
I don't think we did anything more than buy it and employee people to run it in our absence. We did say that the profits would be going either (a) back to the shop or (b) to our various information gathering activities... or (c) a bit of both.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 30, 2012 9:45:32 GMT -5
They really don't do a great job of establishing what a standard person needs to survive day to day. Maybe I'll track down what we did with the shop later :-). A Skill 3 shopkeeper running the shop may only generate 5 silver a month to put into other things, which is enough to help sustain the higher loyalty, but won't necessarily extend assetts.
Trying to balance an already unbalanced economy is tricky. The idea is to improve resource level has to be a meaningful expenditure for the PCs, rather than any sense of "how much this money means to a common person" - because that economy is likely broken in so many ways :-).
I vaguely recall buying a cheap piece of empty real estate somewhere and setting up shop with a random person running it, so probably skill 2-3.
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Post by ehren on May 30, 2012 10:09:05 GMT -5
For the record, I'm totally fine with the profit going to maintain our various information networks' loyalty.
It makes sense that to improve their abilities (the networks) or to increase loyalty, we (the players) should put in some of our resources.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 30, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -5
Just tracked down the thread, looks like we shelled out $2000 for the shop and two extra kits, but didn't invest anything in setting up an actual storefront - which would cost $400. Just talked about doing it. Would probably attract a 2 skill alchemist to work it pretty easily. Setting up a shop would only take 20 months to pay for itself, that's not a bad turn-around on the investment, really! Since capital doesn't depreciate! Or maybe capital depreciation is already deducted from the profits. Yeah, that's it.
Or, since we're dumping the money into NPCs, that's about 1 silver a month to each of the Bar and the Orphans.
IF you wanted to improve the skill 2, you probably could. I'm still looking for good options. I also might change it to 400 for the square space then 100*ED multiplier to hire someone permanently (not realistic, but easy!). So like 200 for skill 2, 300 for skill 3, 500 for skill 4, et cetera.
Without buying the land or hiring someone, we just have the shop set up in a room of our residence with no ability for commercial traffic (but we can use it).
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Post by ehren on May 30, 2012 11:57:24 GMT -5
Just tracked down the thread, looks like we shelled out $2000 for the shop and two extra kits, but didn't invest anything in setting up an actual storefront - which would cost $400. Just talked about doing it. Would probably attract a 2 skill alchemist to work it pretty easily. Setting up a shop would only take 20 months to pay for itself, that's not a bad turn-around on the investment, really! Since capital doesn't depreciate! Or maybe capital depreciation is already deducted from the profits. Yeah, that's it. Or, since we're dumping the money into NPCs, that's about 1 silver a month to each of the Bar and the Orphans. IF you wanted to improve the skill 2, you probably could. I'm still looking for good options. I also might change it to 400 for the square space then 100*ED multiplier to hire someone permanently (not realistic, but easy!). So like 200 for skill 2, 300 for skill 3, 500 for skill 4, et cetera. Without buying the land or hiring someone, we just have the shop set up in a room of our residence with no ability for commercial traffic (but we can use it). Well, when we get back, I'll get 1 alchemist & an assistant and get us some square footage for the shop. I figure we'll get a skill 3 alchemist to run the shop and a skill 2 assistant to help out. Although that really depends on if we make any money on our current little outing. If we make a bit of money, that we don't earmark to something else, maybe get a R4 alchemist... I can currently afford to buy the shop space, but not anybody to man the shop. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 12:14:38 GMT -5
So, for basic needs, it seems that the cost of living is 4 silver/day (1 silver for each 'average' meal, and 1 silver for a private room in a cheap inn). So, based off that average, and without factoring in the cost of clothes: 120 silver/person/month... roughly.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 14:34:02 GMT -5
So, for basic needs, it seems that the cost of living is 4 silver/day (1 silver for each 'average' meal, and 1 silver for a private room in a cheap inn). So, based off that average, and without factoring in the cost of clothes: 120 silver/person/month... roughly. But that is the equivalent of staying in a hotel (a private room is actually by definition a nice room/above average for a "normal" person in a medieval setting) and eating out for every meal. So that's the equivalent of $100+$5+10+20 for food, or $4,000 a month. Whereas you can get a higher standard of living than that for 1/4 of that if you don't live in hotels. So 30 silver per person per month is probably a better estimate, even allowing a small budget for other niceties. Which I guess is more in line with what I set out earlier for trade skills paying. That sets your average person in their prime at a skill level of about 3 in a useful profession. Which is conveniently step 8, the reliable step! [10 attribute + 3 skill]. Of course, a decent alchemist can still make 150 silver in 2 days *rolls eyes*, which is why the default crafting rules are broken, since that's easily 600-1200 a month in pure profit for someone who's not even that well trained :-). Edit: And of course, that refers to urban dwellers paying rent. Your average peasant probably sees at most 30 actual silver pieces in a year. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 14:48:09 GMT -5
So, for basic needs, it seems that the cost of living is 4 silver/day (1 silver for each 'average' meal, and 1 silver for a private room in a cheap inn). So, based off that average, and without factoring in the cost of clothes: 120 silver/person/month... roughly. But that is the equivalent of staying in a hotel (a private room is actually by definition a nice room/above average for a "normal" person in a medieval setting) and eating out for every meal. So that's the equivalent of $100+$5+10+20 for food, or $4,000 a month. Whereas you can get a higher standard of living than that for 1/4 of that if you don't live in hotels. So 30 silver per person per month is probably a better estimate. Which I guess is more in line with what I set out earlier for trade skills paying. That sets your average person in their prime at a skill level of about 3 in a useful profession. Which is conveniently step 8, the reliable step! [10 attribute + 3 skill]. Of course, a decent alchemist can still make 150 silver in 2 days *rolls eyes*, which is why the default crafting rules are broken, since that's easily 600-1200 a month in pure profit for someone who's not even that well trained :-). Yeah... but in the rules, they'd have to Haggle to sell the potions AND they have an initial capital outlay for the equipment. It also asumes that everyone (can and does) becomes something as profitable as being an Alchemist... there are still tailors, farmers, and other tradesmen out there. Alchemy is the economically really broken mechanic. But 30 silver/month sounds about right - which is why I'll use the same chart for the Trader campaign. Of course, the PCs are playing Heroes, and the base economy of the system doesn't really play into there thoughts. When they raid a Kaer, or go adventuring and return with hundreds to thousands in Loot... making a bit of money from Alchemy is really then a drop in the bucket. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 14:49:46 GMT -5
Of course, we're also the group who gave away a Silvered Shield and Purifier... so money isn't what really concerns or motivates us.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 14:55:11 GMT -5
Well, hundreds of thousands is still broken :-). I actually think about 1/5 of what you get in LP is the designed treasure goal. But there's always handwaving in fantasy games.
"You now have two magic swords worth enough money each to retire in relative luxury. Have you maybe considered selling one of your priceless artifacts to the king for a title and a plot of land somewhere?"
or the tricky part with battletech, Battlemechs need to somehow be affordable to individuals but not present in the thousands on wealthy planets. Similar issues with airships. You need enough to make sky raiders viable, but they can't be so cheap that they replace caravans, armies and sailing ships. Of course, it helps if you assume that 90% of all airships are Theran (which may be true). Leaving a ridiculously wealthy, powerful and magically adept kingdom supplying most of the prey for very specialized clans devoted to air ships - where an entire village might contribute something to manning one successful airship, with hundreds of people essentially working for free to build even one ship every 10 years. And/or using stolen ships. A kingdom like Throal then only has a few ships.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 15:17:04 GMT -5
Trying to remember where this all started . . . oh, yeah, the cost of hiring help . . . I'm leaning towards:
10*value of their skill for money-making help (setting up stores/shops/setting up ships).
Gain 10% of that value per month in profit.
The idea is that said people are making the money used to pay their own salary, so it's a lifetime thing.
Relevant if you want to build a trade network. It's also fine to say you hire a caravan master, and he hires his own help. You'd only have to pay the master's cost, everything else is abstracted. You could hire a skill 8 guy to run a trading company for example, you woudln't have to figure out the cost of buying boats. This is also somewhat abstract, for example he may only have an actual skill of like 5, but with all his skilled help, ships and captains it works out to skill 8 in terms of bonus money it generates for the PCs without them having to manage the company.
For people who aren't income earners:
10*value of skill to hire people per year.
Manual labor is equivalent to skill 1.
As per SR, if you pay 100*value of skill, they're permanent for the life of the character.
So 3000 silver would get you a skill three guardsman for life! Although the particular guardsman will probably change over the years. But say you wanted to always have a Skill 3 spy keeping an eye on your interests in a particular city forever, without a lot of paperwork every year!
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 15:20:40 GMT -5
For NPC organizations i'm going somewhat organically.
But for a straight guideline, I would say bascically 10 times the LP cost of a talent of that rank (circle 1) in silver.
I.e., so to raise the orphanage folks to a combat rating of 2 from a 1, would cost 2,000 silver. What that represents is often left up to the characters - buying everyone weapons, hiring armsmasters, building up the fortifications of their estate, hiring guards, that kind of thing.
Or to make lud's and Uld's spy network from a 3 to a 4 would cost 5,000 silver.
Other things like magical items and such are worked out organically by me ;-). Not actually based on the value. A magical shield might raise a 1 to a 2, but a magical sword won't do anything at all to raise uld's information gathering and isn't enough to raise a 4 to a 5 by itself!
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 15:21:19 GMT -5
[Trying to give the players concrete numbers they can plan around or work towards.]
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 15:51:04 GMT -5
Well, hundreds of thousands is still broken :-). I actually think about 1/5 of what you get in LP is the designed treasure goal. But there's always handwaving in fantasy games. "You now have two magic swords worth enough money each to retire in relative luxury. Have you maybe considered selling one of your priceless artifacts to the king for a title and a plot of land somewhere?" or the tricky part with battletech, Battlemechs need to somehow be affordable to individuals but not present in the thousands on wealthy planets. Similar issues with airships. You need enough to make sky raiders viable, but they can't be so cheap that they replace caravans, armies and sailing ships. Of course, it helps if you assume that 90% of all airships are Theran (which may be true). Leaving a ridiculously wealthy, powerful and magically adept kingdom supplying most of the prey for very specialized clans devoted to air ships - where an entire village might contribute something to manning one successful airship, with hundreds of people essentially working for free to build even one ship every 10 years. And/or using stolen ships. A kingdom like Throal then only has a few ships. That was hundres to thousands... not hundred of thousands... but, you point is correct. Which is one of the reasons I like ED so much - "I don't want to retire! I want to increase my Legend!" Throal has a Navy of a dozen or so Airships. I think each Troll Moot for the Crystal Raiders has at least 1 dakkar and possible more. Thera must have the vast majority of ships... especially because all of Barsaive's ship building only produces 3-4 ships/yr. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 15:56:33 GMT -5
Trying to remember where this all started . . . oh, yeah, the cost of hiring help . . . I'm leaning towards: 10*value of their skill for money-making help (setting up stores/shops/setting up ships). Gain 10% of that value per month in profit. The idea is that said people are making the money used to pay their own salary, so it's a lifetime thing. Relevant if you want to build a trade network. It's also fine to say you hire a caravan master, and he hires his own help. You'd only have to pay the master's cost, everything else is abstracted. You could hire a skill 8 guy to run a trading company for example, you woudln't have to figure out the cost of buying boats. This is also somewhat abstract, for example he may only have an actual skill of like 5, but with all his skilled help, ships and captains it works out to skill 8 in terms of bonus money it generates for the PCs without them having to manage the company. For people who aren't income earners: 10*value of skill to hire people per year. Manual labor is equivalent to skill 1. As per SR, if you pay 100*value of skill, they're permanent for the life of the character. So 3000 silver would get you a skill three guardsman for life! Although the particular guardsman will probably change over the years. But say you wanted to always have a Skill 3 spy keeping an eye on your interests in a particular city forever, without a lot of paperwork every year! So, for a Skill 3 Alchemist to run the shop it would cost 100*30 (his skill earning) = $3,000 to hire him forever to run the shop? (When he dies, do we need to pay for another... or have we bought a serf, and his family to run the shop for generations?) |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 15:57:31 GMT -5
[Trying to give the players concrete numbers they can plan around or work towards.] Totally apreciate that. It give us a goal & allows us to allocate our scarce resources. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 16:01:37 GMT -5
For NPC organizations i'm going somewhat organically. But for a straight guideline, I would say bascically 10 times the LP cost of a talent of that rank (circle 1) in silver. I.e., so to raise the orphanage folks to a combat rating of 2 from a 1, would cost 2,000 silver. What that represents is often left up to the characters - buying everyone weapons, hiring armsmasters, building up the fortifications of their estate, hiring guards, that kind of thing. Or to make lud's and Uld's spy network from a 3 to a 4 would cost 5,000 silver. Other things like magical items and such are worked out organically by me ;-). Not actually based on the value. A magical shield might raise a 1 to a 2, but a magical sword won't do anything at all to raise uld's information gathering and isn't enough to raise a 4 to a 5 by itself! And if we spend a month training a group - would that count for 30 silver, or would it count different? My reasoning here, is that if we provide the training ourselves it should be *more* valuable than hiring lackeys to do it for us. It would build a more personal bond between oursleves and the group over and above the theoretical loss of income. Also, we have R4 in a lot of combat skills - which would be like 5,000 in silver to hire. |
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 17:08:07 GMT -5
Yes, if you can spend a full month training them I would count your circle, rather than any specific skill.
So in this case 50 a month. And of course there are loyalty benefits, which I'm not using a points scale for improving but obviously training some of the folks directly or helping them out directly helps with loyalty. This also wouldn't strictly have to be training. i.e., if Maw spends a month helping Uld and Lud grow their spy network, he's probably not training people so much as going to bars and making contacts and friends and introducing them to other contacts.
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Post by GM / Malinous on May 31, 2012 17:22:53 GMT -5
5000 silver though would get you an S4 person (or persons more likely0 for 100 years.
So you'd only have to lend assistance for one month of the year to equal that!
There are basically three classes of assets here.
(1) Money making ventures - employing alchemists and traders.
- Cost [Rank] Novice talent LP costs in Silver
- provide 1% of that cost per month in profit/benefit pay their own salaries.
(2) Skilled individuals
- Cost [Rank] Novice talent LP costs in Silver PER YEAR
- benefit is useful skills [like employing a Rank 4 body guard, Rank 4 Spy, Rank 4 troubadour]
- Can pay Cost *10 to have someone like that forever (barring cataclysmic events/enemy action)
(3) organizations
(a) Loyalty is dependant on various factors, largely GM fiat/RP related
(b) Resources depend on any number of factors - including the nature of the organization which may also place limits on max ability (you're never going to turn a single orphanage into an army, for example or turn a mercenary unit into a spy network).
-- PCs may improve by spending the equivalent of (Novice Talent Cost * 10) in silver.
-- PCs may donate time directly, for a benefit of (1/10 Novice Talent Rank [Circle] cost in silver per month).
-- May also improve by donating other things, although the improvement is up to GM and won't strictly speaking be measured in silver (in my head I'd probably estimate most major contributions such as a magical item or a land grant or a wealthy/highly skilled patron as about 1000 silver) (examples include hooking the orphans up with an estate and a wealthy scared old guy to pay for it, or donating magical items like we have directly or indirectly to Orek or the skilled Dwarf we referred to Uld and Lud).
Generally you would improve the orphans not by paying 5,000 silver for a skill 4 trainer (although you could, and they would then contribute 50 silver a month to improving relative skills) but just by contributing the 5000 directly and saying it goes to pay for things like training and apprenticeships and buying social connections to get them hooked up with jobs as they grow older [So eventually the influence of the "Orphans" includes a lot of former orphans who do favors for current orphans.]
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 17:24:22 GMT -5
For NPC organizations i'm going somewhat organically. But for a straight guideline, I would say bascically 10 times the LP cost of a talent of that rank (circle 1) in silver. I.e., so to raise the orphanage folks to a combat rating of 2 from a 1, would cost 2,000 silver. What that represents is often left up to the characters - buying everyone weapons, hiring armsmasters, building up the fortifications of their estate, hiring guards, that kind of thing. Or to make lud's and Uld's spy network from a 3 to a 4 would cost 5,000 silver. Other things like magical items and such are worked out organically by me ;-). Not actually based on the value. A magical shield might raise a 1 to a 2, but a magical sword won't do anything at all to raise uld's information gathering and isn't enough to raise a 4 to a 5 by itself! Yes, if you can spend a full month training them I would count your circle, rather than any specific skill. So in this case 50 a month. And of course there are loyalty benefits, which I'm not using a points scale for improving but obviously training some of the folks directly or helping them out directly helps with loyalty. This also wouldn't strictly have to be training. i.e., if Maw spends a month helping Uld and Lud grow their spy network, he's probably not training people so much as going to bars and making contacts and friends and introducing them to other contacts. So, with me training the Orphans it would take approximately 40 months to increase their combat potential (2000/50)? Not to sound too disapointed, but I was hoping that if one of us dedicated a significant period of time (months rather than years) we'd see the improvement. In 1 week any of us can train an adept up a circle. I realise that they aren't adepts, but even raising a skill doesn't take that long. (The chart on p239 would say that to train from Rank 1 to Rank 2 would only take a month... and cost 40 silver) I realise that we are abstracting the rules for the purpuse of developing these assests, and I don't want it to be too easy or too difficult. I also realise that we're talking about groups of people not a character going to improve a skill... but 40 months seems a little long to me. |
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Post by ehren on May 31, 2012 17:28:26 GMT -5
5000 silver though would get you an S4 person (or persons more likely0 for 100 years. So you'd only have to lend assistance for one month of the year to equal that! There are basically three classes of assets here. (1) Money making ventures - employing alchemists and traders. - Cost [Rank] Novice talent LP costs in Silver - provide 1% of that cost per month in profit/benefit pay their own salaries. (2) Skilled individuals - Cost [Rank] Novice talent LP costs in Silver PER YEAR - benefit is useful skills [like employing a Rank 4 body guard, Rank 4 Spy, Rank 4 troubadour] - Can pay Cost *10 to have someone like that forever (barring cataclysmic events/enemy action) (3) organizations (a) Loyalty is dependant on various factors, largely GM fiat/RP related (b) Resources depend on any number of factors - including the nature of the organization which may also place limits on max ability (you're never going to turn a single orphanage into an army, for example or turn a mercenary unit into a spy network). -- PCs may improve by spending the equivalent of (Novice Talent Cost * 10) in silver. -- PCs may donate time directly, for a benefit of (1/10 Novice Talent Rank [Circle] cost in silver per month). -- May also improve by donating other things, although the improvement is up to GM and won't strictly speaking be measured in silver (in my head I'd probably estimate most major contributions such as a magical item or a land grant or a wealthy/highly skilled patron as about 1000 silver) (examples include hooking the orphans up with an estate and a wealthy scared old guy to pay for it, or donating magical items like we have directly or indirectly to Orek or the skilled Dwarf we referred to Uld and Lud). Generally you would improve the orphans not by paying 5,000 silver for a skill 4 trainer (although you could, and they would then contribute 50 silver a month to improving relative skills) but just by contributing the 5000 directly and saying it goes to pay for things like training and apprenticeships and buying social connections to get them hooked up with jobs as they grow older [So eventually the influence of the "Orphans" includes a lot of former orphans who do favors for current orphans.] These I like, and we should edit into the Optional Rules posts. |
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